---

Jeg tror det handler om Israel's genoprettelse, og det er en god ide at
medtage Ez 37,1-14 om de tørre knogler der får liv. En profeti om Israel der
ikke er gået i fuld opfyldelse endnu, men opfyldes når det nuværende Israel
bliver frelst ved Helligåndens værk.

Jeg mener det er meget far-fetched at påstå at det Ezekiel profetere om her
i virkeligheden er mormons bog.

Is this a description of modern Israel, a secular state whose citizens
generally do not believe in the God of the Old Testament? Will the
spiritually dead people one day be converted by a wonderful act of God’s
Spirit and, restored to their ancient relationship with the Lord, experience
fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies? This is what many Christians
believe. And it may well be exactly what Ezekiel teaches us in this
significant section of his book.
Certainly the rest of Ezekiel’s picture of restored Israel has not yet had a
historic fulfillment. For when that day comes, “My servant David [that is,
the Messiah, who will come from David’s family line] will be king over them”
not just for one generation but “forever” (vv. 24, 26).
Richards, Lawrence O., The Teacher’s Commentary, (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books)
1987.

jørgen.

---

"Live4Him" <brothers_bisp@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> Jeg tror det handler om Israel's genoprettelse, og det er en god ide at
> medtage Ez 37,1-14 om de tørre knogler der får liv. En profeti om Israel
der
> ikke er gået i fuld opfyldelse endnu, men opfyldes når det nuværende
Israel
> bliver frelst ved Helligåndens værk.
>
> Jeg mener det er meget far-fetched at påstå at det Ezekiel profetere om
her
> i virkeligheden er mormons bog.

Ezekiel 37 du forsøger at tolke, er et af de skriftsteder der er blevet
tolket mest forskelligartet af alle skriftsteder i Bibelen. Hvorfor tror du
at du er i stand til det, når ingen andre har gjort det og derudover
bedømmer hvad som ikke passer med Ezekiel 37...?

Hugh Nibley som er en af SDH's fornemste teologer, med en PhD fra Berkeley,
har skrevet en større essay om netop det vers hvor han går igennem alle
elementer og tolkning fra SDH synspunkt. Dette essay er alt for langt til at
bringe her, men jeg vil bringe hans ord til dem, som tror de kan tolke det
eller med sikkerhed fortælle hvad det betyder:

"Ezekiel 37 Is Not Obvious
1. The usual clerical rebuttal to the claim that Ezekiel's vision refers to
the Book of Mormon is that Ezekiel cannot possibly be referring to the Book
of Mormon because he was "obviously" referring to something else. fn But
whatever obviousness there is in the reference resides in the will and mind
of the critic and is anything but obvious to the rest of the world. If no
book in the world has been the subject of more dispute than the Bible,
certainly no book in the Bible is more argued about today than Ezekiel; and
no passage in Ezekiel is more variously and more fancifully explained than
the mysterious account of the Stick of Joseph and the Stick of Judah
(Ezekiel 37:16-23). To whom shall we turn for an authoritative explanation
of this or any other part of Ezekiel? Quite recently the retired dean of one
of the greatest American divinity schools, after a thorough examination of
all the scholarly writings on Ezekiel produced between 1943 and 1953, came
to a significant conclusion: "Not a single scholar has succeeded in
convincing his colleagues of the finality of his analysis of so much as one
passage" in that much-studied book. "They have given only opinions," says
the dean, "when the situation cries aloud for . . . evidence. . . . Every
scholar goes his own way and according to his private predilection chooses
what is genuine and what is secondary in the book; and the figure and work
of Ezekiel still dwell in thick darkness." fn

In view of that verdict, how can we accept any man's judgment as final or
announce that the Mormons can't be right because, forsooth, Dr. So-and-so
thinks otherwise?



(Hugh Nibley, An Approach to the Book of Mormon, 3rd ed. [Salt Lake City and
Provo: Deseret Book Co., Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies,
1988], .)

--
Med venlig hilsen

Kenn L. Schjødt
Dansk side om Jesu Kristi Kirke af SDH: http://www.kristus.dk
Kirkens officielle hjemmeside: http://www.lds.org

---

"Kenn L. Schjødt" <kenn_s.fjern_for_email@worldonline.dk> wrote in message
news:3be4496b$0$335$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk...
>
> "Live4Him" <brothers_bisp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > Jeg tror det handler om Israel's genoprettelse, og det er en god ide at
> > medtage Ez 37,1-14 om de tørre knogler der får liv. En profeti om Israel
> der
> > ikke er gået i fuld opfyldelse endnu, men opfyldes når det nuværende
> Israel
> > bliver frelst ved Helligåndens værk.
> >
> > Jeg mener det er meget far-fetched at påstå at det Ezekiel profetere om
> her
> > i virkeligheden er mormons bog.
>
> Ezekiel 37 du forsøger at tolke, er et af de skriftsteder der er blevet
> tolket mest forskelligartet af alle skriftsteder i Bibelen. Hvorfor tror
du
> at du er i stand til det, når ingen andre har gjort det og derudover
> bedømmer hvad som ikke passer med Ezekiel 37...?

Det her minder meget mere om Janteloven end Guds næstekærlighed.

Men SDH har tolket den til at være forløber for momonbogen, og
er sikert efter SDH de eneste der kan tolke den, IKKE???


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Larsen
erik-larsen@get2net.dk
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bibel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






> Med venlig hilsen
>
> Kenn L. Schjødt
> Dansk side om Jesu Kristi Kirke af SDH: http://www.kristus.dk
> Kirkens officielle hjemmeside: http://www.lds.org
>
>
>
>

---

"Live4Him" <brothers_bisp@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> Jeg tror det handler om Israel's genoprettelse, og det er en god ide at
> medtage Ez 37,1-14 om de tørre knogler der får liv. En profeti om Israel
der
> ikke er gået i fuld opfyldelse endnu, men opfyldes når det nuværende
Israel
> bliver frelst ved Helligåndens værk.
>
> Jeg mener det er meget far-fetched at påstå at det Ezekiel profetere om
her
> i virkeligheden er mormons bog.

Er det i virkeligheden det, lad os først citerer Ezekiel 37:15-19

"v15 Herrens ord kom til mig: v16 Du, menneske, tag et træstykke, og skriv
på det: Juda og hans forbundsfæller, israelitterne. Tag derpå et andet
træstykke ­ Efraims træstykke ­ og skriv på det: Josef og hans
forbundsfæller, hele Israels hus. v17 Læg så det ene sammen med det andet,
så du har ét stykke træ i hånden. v18 Når nu dine landsmænd siger til dig:
Fortæl os dog, hvad du mener med det, v19 skal du sige til dem: Dette siger
Gud Herren: Jeg tager Josefs træstykke ­ det som er i hånden på Efraim og
hans forbundsfæller, Israels stammer ­ og lægger Judas træstykke oven på
det. Jeg gør dem til ét træstykke, så jeg har ét stykke i hånden.

For hvis man studerer hvilken betydning de hebræiske ord ord Ezekiel bruger,
så er det klart at der hentydes til tabletter eller bøger. Hugh Nibley
skriver følgende om dette:
What Is an " 'Etz"?

3. Since it is claimed that Ezekiel's "sticks" stood for books, the
questions arise, (a) could they have done so? and (b) did they? The first
thing to consider is that the prophet does not speak of "sticks" at all, but
only of "wood," in the singular and plural. The word he uses is 'etz, which
in itself simply means "wood," and can only be taken to indicate this or
that wooden object or implement when we know the specific use to which it is
put. Thus in the Bible one plays music on an 'etz, and then it is not just
wood but a harp; one writes with an 'etz, and then it is a stylus or a pen;
one ploughs with an 'etz, and then it is more than wood-it is a plough;
fruit grows on an 'etz, and then it is a tree; or a tree itself can have an
'etz, which is a branch; when it resembles a person an 'etz is an image;
when as such it is worshipped, then it is an idol; as an instrument of
execution it is a gallows; as building material it is a beam; as a weapon,
it is a spear, etc. fn As Gregory the Great observed long ago, the Hebrew
word 'etz as used in the Old Testament can mean almost anything, depending
entirely on the context in which it is used. fn So before we can translate
Ezekiel's 'etz, or even guess at what kind of a thing it was, we must
consider the specific uses to which he put it.

It Is a Written Text

First of all, the prophet is ordered to write upon the "woods." It is not
surprising, therefore, that the oldest Jewish commentators on Ezekiel, men
who knew far more about Hebrew language, customs, and symbols than any
modern seminarist ever can, insisted that Ezekiel's "woods" were
writing-tablets or books. fn Recent important discoveries have shown that
the board or tablet form of book is exceedingly old-much older than had
formerly been supposed, and that "from the Old Babylonian period onwards" a
single word was used to designate board, tablet, and written documents. fn
The earliest of all surviving Ezekiel commentaries, those of Eusebius and
Jerome-the ablest scholars of their time and both trained in
Hebrew-maintained that the "woods" of Ezekiel were actually books,
specifically, books of scripture. fn Dr. Keil, in his respected modern
Jewish commentary on Ezekiel, finds it most significant that though the
"woods" are definitely rods or staves in some connections, Ezekiel
deliberately avoids calling them such, since he does not wish in presenting
the complex symbolism of the sticks in any way to obscure the priority of
the idea of the "woods" as written documents. fn

(Hugh Nibley, An Approach to the Book of Mormon, 3rd ed. [Salt Lake City and
Provo: Deseret Book Co., Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies,
1988], 314.)

Det er altså plausibelt at fortolke Ezekiel 37 som hellige skrifter der
bliver lagt sammen. SDH tror dette er Bibelen og Mormons Bog. Men siden
Ezekiel 37 er så debatteret er det blot en af forklaringerne.

--
Med venlig hilsen

Kenn L. Schjødt
Dansk side om Jesu Kristi Kirke af SDH: http://www.kristus.dk
Kirkens officielle hjemmeside: http://www.lds.org

---

"Live4Him" <brothers_bisp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3be437aa$0$57616$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk...
> Jeg tror det handler om Israel's genoprettelse, og det er en god ide at
> medtage Ez 37,1-14 om de tørre knogler der får liv. En profeti om Israel
der
> ikke er gået i fuld opfyldelse endnu, men opfyldes når det nuværende
Israel
> bliver frelst ved Helligåndens værk.

Her et indslag fra din WWW,adresse http://www.exmormon.org/


USE OF THE BIBLE FOR PROOF OF MORMONISM

Mormons use Ezekiel 37:16-17 to prove the Book of Mormon is written about in
the Bible. They say the stick for Joseph is the Book of Mormon; however,
they ignore the next 5 verses, which is an explanation of 16 & 17. Ezekiel
37:16-22 reads. "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write
upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions; then take
another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for
all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into
one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. And when the children of
thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou
meanest by these? Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will
take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of
Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of
Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand."

"And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their
eyes. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the
children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will
gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will
make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king
shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither
shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: . . . " When the 12
tribes left Egypt each had its own territory. After Solomon's death they
split into two nations. The southern portion consisted of Judah and
Benjamin, the northern was the sons of Joseph (Ephraim & Manasseh). The
stick for Joseph represented the northern kingdom. The stick for Judah
represented the southern kingdom. God had Ezekiel join the two sticks
together to visually demonstrate his promise to make them one nation.

Another scripture used is Rev. 14:6 "And I saw another angel fly in the
midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that
dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and
people." If we continue reading the next verses the angel says to fear God
for his hour of judgment has come. Which is then followed by another angel
which says Babylon has fallen and by the third angel that talks about
worshipping the beast (anti-christ). This verse is not only taken out of
context within the chapter but is taken out of context of what is written in
the entire book of Revelation. At this point in the book, over half the
population of the world has been killed. There has been mass devastation of
the earth. The temple in Jerusalem has been rebuilt and the anti-christ has
entered the temple declaring himself as God. This is a prophecy yet to
happen, not the occurrence of the angel Moroni appearing to Joseph Smith.

John 10:16--"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I
must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and
one shepherd." Mormons claim the other sheep are the Nephites in America.
Traditional Christian interpretation of this verse is that the other sheep
are the Gentiles. This view is backed up by Matthew 12:18 & 21, Acts 9:15,
28:28. We understand the Mormon view on this verse, because this verse is
copied word for word in III Nephi 15:17, 21 and is discussed in chapters 15
and 16 of III Nephi. We find it interesting that Greek and Reformed Egyptian
would translate out word for word into 16th Century English. It would be
interesting to know the odds of that happening. There are many other Bible
scriptures taken out of context or strange interpretations added which the
Mormons use as proof text. We would be happy to look at any of these with
you.

The LDS use Isaiah 2:2 and say this is a prophecy of the Salt Lake Temple.
However, in Isaiah 2:1 we read "The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw
concerning Judah and Jerusalem." This prophecy about a temple in the
mountains is clearly about the Jews in Jerusalem, not the Mormons in Salt
Lake. (Note this Chapter and following chapters of Isaiah are copied in the
Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 12 and following.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Larsen
erik-larsen@get2net.dk
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bibel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~