---

Hi.

Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor quality, check
THIS one out !

This is for experts !

Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..

My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)

http://orre.mine.nu/id/id1/id1.htm

Thanks

//Ben

---

Beng wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor quality,
> check THIS one out !
>
> This is for experts !
>
> Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..
>
> My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)

I agree. The points to look for in comparison with other falcons are
the comparatively short wings both in 'hand' and 'arm', thus making
the whole bird look 'compact'; and the protruding head, which is a
feature of Merlin. The bird clearly displays both of those features,
so I go for Merlin too.

Cheers,
--
Phil
http://philip.fotoblog.me.uk
Mainly Old Photos with an Edinburgh Connection
(More added recently).

---

"Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in news:42b41600$0$18637
$14726298@news.sunsite.dk:

> Beng wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>> Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor quality,
>> check THIS one out !
>>
>> This is for experts !
>>
>> Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..
>>
>> My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)
>
> I agree. The points to look for in comparison with other falcons are
> the comparatively short wings both in 'hand' and 'arm', thus making
> the whole bird look 'compact'; and the protruding head, which is a
> feature of Merlin. The bird clearly displays both of those features,
> so I go for Merlin too.
>
> Cheers,

Ok.. thanks for your opinion.. did you hear the sound ?

//Ben

---

Beng wrote:
> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
> news:42b41600$0$18637 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>
>> Beng wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor quality,
>>> check THIS one out !
>>>
>>> This is for experts !
>>>
>>> Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..
>>>
>>> My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)
>>
>> I agree. The points to look for in comparison with other falcons
>> are
>> the comparatively short wings both in 'hand' and 'arm', thus making
>> the whole bird look 'compact'; and the protruding head, which is a
>> feature of Merlin. The bird clearly displays both of those
>> features,
>> so I go for Merlin too.
>>
>> Cheers,
>
> Ok.. thanks for your opinion.. did you hear the sound ?

No, the page would not open for me. I'm no snob, though, since I use
IE6 (cue low-level intake of breath from assembled audience). One
thing I should have mentioned is that the Merlin also has, becasue of
its slightly broader 'arm' (inner part of the wing) a tail which is
medium length in relation to its body (longer than Peregrine and
Hobby, shorter than Kestrel), and rather parallel and square-ended.
The whole appearance is quite distinctive when you know them.

Cheers,

Phil

--
Devilish golf ball! Now you crucify me
With your globular intransigence.
(Craig Brown - from The Lost Golfing Journals of Sylvia Plath)

---

"Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in news:42b42407$0$18642
$14726298@news.sunsite.dk:

> Beng wrote:
>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>> news:42b41600$0$18637 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>
>>> Beng wrote:
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor quality,
>>>> check THIS one out !
>>>>
>>>> This is for experts !
>>>>
>>>> Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..
>>>>
>>>> My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)
>>>
>>> I agree. The points to look for in comparison with other falcons
>>> are
>>> the comparatively short wings both in 'hand' and 'arm', thus making
>>> the whole bird look 'compact'; and the protruding head, which is a
>>> feature of Merlin. The bird clearly displays both of those
>>> features,
>>> so I go for Merlin too.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ok.. thanks for your opinion.. did you hear the sound ?
>
> No, the page would not open for me. I'm no snob, though, since I use
> IE6 (cue low-level intake of breath from assembled audience). One
> thing I should have mentioned is that the Merlin also has, becasue of
> its slightly broader 'arm' (inner part of the wing) a tail which is
> medium length in relation to its body (longer than Peregrine and
> Hobby, shorter than Kestrel), and rather parallel and square-ended.
> The whole appearance is quite distinctive when you know them.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Phil
>

But.. I use IE6.. no problems clicking the soundlink.. Win MP opens and
playes the sound..

Many thanks for your analysis though.. as said earlier.. I learn from
that. But of course, I cant ID this bird as a Merlin.. althought I'm "in
heart" know it IS a Merlin... I will go there again.. this time taking a
movie.. not STILL picture.. impossible at those speeds.. I'm still a
little "taken" by the action of that bird...

//Ben

---

Beng wrote:
> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
> news:42b42407$0$18642 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>
>> Beng wrote:
>>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>>> news:42b41600$0$18637 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>>
>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor quality,
>>>>> check THIS one out !
>>>>>
>>>>> This is for experts !
>>>>>
>>>>> Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..
>>>>>
>>>>> My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)
>>>>
>>>> I agree. The points to look for in comparison with other falcons
>>>> are
>>>> the comparatively short wings both in 'hand' and 'arm', thus making
>>>> the whole bird look 'compact'; and the protruding head, which is a
>>>> feature of Merlin. The bird clearly displays both of those
>>>> features,
>>>> so I go for Merlin too.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Ok.. thanks for your opinion.. did you hear the sound ?
>>
>> No, the page would not open for me. I'm no snob, though, since I use
>> IE6 (cue low-level intake of breath from assembled audience). One
>> thing I should have mentioned is that the Merlin also has, becasue of
>> its slightly broader 'arm' (inner part of the wing) a tail which is
>> medium length in relation to its body (longer than Peregrine and
>> Hobby, shorter than Kestrel), and rather parallel and square-ended.
>> The whole appearance is quite distinctive when you know them.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>
> But.. I use IE6.. no problems clicking the soundlink.. Win MP opens
> and playes the sound..
>
> Many thanks for your analysis though.. as said earlier.. I learn from
> that. But of course, I cant ID this bird as a Merlin.. althought I'm
> "in heart" know it IS a Merlin... I will go there again.. this time
> taking a movie.. not STILL picture.. impossible at those speeds.. I'm
> still a little "taken" by the action of that bird...
>
I don't belive a Merlin should be able to paralyse two ravens.
You need at least a goshawk or a Peregrine/Gyrfalcon to do scare two
ravens.
A Raven is at least twvice as big as a Merlin and about 5 time heavier.
How could you tell the size of the bird ??

Mikkel

---

"Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in
news:kO_te.56403$Fe7.178115@news000.worldonline.dk:

> Beng wrote:
>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>> news:42b42407$0$18642 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>
>>> Beng wrote:
>>>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>>>> news:42b41600$0$18637 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>>>
>>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor
quality,
>>>>>> check THIS one out !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is for experts !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree. The points to look for in comparison with other falcons
>>>>> are
>>>>> the comparatively short wings both in 'hand' and 'arm', thus
making
>>>>> the whole bird look 'compact'; and the protruding head, which is a
>>>>> feature of Merlin. The bird clearly displays both of those
>>>>> features,
>>>>> so I go for Merlin too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Ok.. thanks for your opinion.. did you hear the sound ?
>>>
>>> No, the page would not open for me. I'm no snob, though, since I use
>>> IE6 (cue low-level intake of breath from assembled audience). One
>>> thing I should have mentioned is that the Merlin also has, becasue
of
>>> its slightly broader 'arm' (inner part of the wing) a tail which is
>>> medium length in relation to its body (longer than Peregrine and
>>> Hobby, shorter than Kestrel), and rather parallel and square-ended.
>>> The whole appearance is quite distinctive when you know them.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>
>> But.. I use IE6.. no problems clicking the soundlink.. Win MP opens
>> and playes the sound..
>>
>> Many thanks for your analysis though.. as said earlier.. I learn from
>> that. But of course, I cant ID this bird as a Merlin.. althought I'm
>> "in heart" know it IS a Merlin... I will go there again.. this time
>> taking a movie.. not STILL picture.. impossible at those speeds.. I'm
>> still a little "taken" by the action of that bird...
>>
> I don't belive a Merlin should be able to paralyse two ravens.
> You need at least a goshawk or a Peregrine/Gyrfalcon to do scare two
> ravens.
> A Raven is at least twvice as big as a Merlin and about 5 time
heavier.
> How could you tell the size of the bird ??
>
> Mikkel
>
>

Well, the Ravens WERE so paralyzed that I could touch them if I wanted.
They even moved towards my feet.. They didnt go anywhere as long as the
Merlin(now identified) flew in the air. The size of the Merlin was easy
to tell when it attacked the Ravens in the air.. direct comparision !

//Ben

---

Beng Bengsson wrote:
> "Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in
> news:kO_te.56403$Fe7.178115@news000.worldonline.dk:
>
>> Beng wrote:
>>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>>> news:42b42407$0$18642 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>>
>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:42b41600$0$18637 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor
>>>>>>> quality, check THIS one out !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is for experts !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree. The points to look for in comparison with other falcons
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> the comparatively short wings both in 'hand' and 'arm', thus
>>>>>> making the whole bird look 'compact'; and the protruding head,
>>>>>> which is a feature of Merlin. The bird clearly displays both of
>>>>>> those features,
>>>>>> so I go for Merlin too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok.. thanks for your opinion.. did you hear the sound ?
>>>>
>>>> No, the page would not open for me. I'm no snob, though, since I
>>>> use IE6 (cue low-level intake of breath from assembled audience).
>>>> One thing I should have mentioned is that the Merlin also has,
>>>> becasue of its slightly broader 'arm' (inner part of the wing) a
>>>> tail which is medium length in relation to its body (longer than
>>>> Peregrine and Hobby, shorter than Kestrel), and rather parallel
>>>> and square-ended. The whole appearance is quite distinctive when
>>>> you know them.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>
>>> But.. I use IE6.. no problems clicking the soundlink.. Win MP opens
>>> and playes the sound..
>>>
>>> Many thanks for your analysis though.. as said earlier.. I learn
>>> from that. But of course, I cant ID this bird as a Merlin..
>>> althought I'm "in heart" know it IS a Merlin... I will go there
>>> again.. this time taking a movie.. not STILL picture.. impossible
>>> at those speeds.. I'm still a little "taken" by the action of that
>>> bird...
>>>
>> I don't belive a Merlin should be able to paralyse two ravens.
>> You need at least a goshawk or a Peregrine/Gyrfalcon to do scare two
>> ravens.
>> A Raven is at least twvice as big as a Merlin and about 5 time
>> heavier. How could you tell the size of the bird ??
>>
>> Mikkel
>>
>>
>
> Well, the Ravens WERE so paralyzed that I could touch them if I
> wanted. They even moved towards my feet.. They didnt go anywhere as
> long as the Merlin(now identified) flew in the air. The size of the
> Merlin was easy to tell when it attacked the Ravens in the air..
> direct comparision !
>
Those ravens must have realy bad nerves. No one i have spoken with have
ever heard that a merlin should be able to scare the sh.. out of a
Raven.
I'm sendig the pictures to some hardcore experts.

Mikkel

---

Jens Mikkel Lausten wrote:

> Those ravens must have realy bad nerves. No one i have spoken with
> have ever heard that a merlin should be able to scare the sh.. out
> of
> a Raven.
> I'm sendig the pictures to some hardcore experts.

I've been attacked by Little Terns. Scared the pants off of me.


Cheers,

--
Phil
http://philip.fotoblog.me.uk
Mainly Old Photos with an Edinburgh Connection
(More added recently).

---

Phil Wilson wrote:
> Jens Mikkel Lausten wrote:
>
>> Those ravens must have realy bad nerves. No one i have spoken with
>> have ever heard that a merlin should be able to scare the sh.. out
>> of
>> a Raven.
>> I'm sendig the pictures to some hardcore experts.
>
> I've been attacked by Little Terns. Scared the pants off of me.
>

You are not a Raven, I guess

Mikkel

---

"Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in
news:Bfwue.56639$Fe7.180476@news000.worldonline.dk:

> Beng Bengsson wrote:
>> "Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in
>> news:kO_te.56403$Fe7.178115@news000.worldonline.dk:
>>
>>> Beng wrote:
>>>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>>>> news:42b42407$0$18642 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>>>
>>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:42b41600$0$18637 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor
>>>>>>>> quality, check THIS one out !
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is for experts !
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree. The points to look for in comparison with other falcons
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> the comparatively short wings both in 'hand' and 'arm', thus
>>>>>>> making the whole bird look 'compact'; and the protruding head,
>>>>>>> which is a feature of Merlin. The bird clearly displays both of
>>>>>>> those features,
>>>>>>> so I go for Merlin too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok.. thanks for your opinion.. did you hear the sound ?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, the page would not open for me. I'm no snob, though, since I
>>>>> use IE6 (cue low-level intake of breath from assembled audience).
>>>>> One thing I should have mentioned is that the Merlin also has,
>>>>> becasue of its slightly broader 'arm' (inner part of the wing) a
>>>>> tail which is medium length in relation to its body (longer than
>>>>> Peregrine and Hobby, shorter than Kestrel), and rather parallel
>>>>> and square-ended. The whole appearance is quite distinctive when
>>>>> you know them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But.. I use IE6.. no problems clicking the soundlink.. Win MP opens
>>>> and playes the sound..
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks for your analysis though.. as said earlier.. I learn
>>>> from that. But of course, I cant ID this bird as a Merlin..
>>>> althought I'm "in heart" know it IS a Merlin... I will go there
>>>> again.. this time taking a movie.. not STILL picture.. impossible
>>>> at those speeds.. I'm still a little "taken" by the action of that
>>>> bird...
>>>>
>>> I don't belive a Merlin should be able to paralyse two ravens.
>>> You need at least a goshawk or a Peregrine/Gyrfalcon to do scare two
>>> ravens.
>>> A Raven is at least twvice as big as a Merlin and about 5 time
>>> heavier. How could you tell the size of the bird ??
>>>
>>> Mikkel
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well, the Ravens WERE so paralyzed that I could touch them if I
>> wanted. They even moved towards my feet.. They didnt go anywhere as
>> long as the Merlin(now identified) flew in the air. The size of the
>> Merlin was easy to tell when it attacked the Ravens in the air..
>> direct comparision !
>>
> Those ravens must have realy bad nerves. No one i have spoken with
have
> ever heard that a merlin should be able to scare the sh.. out of a
> Raven.
> I'm sendig the pictures to some hardcore experts.
>
> Mikkel
>
>

Well.. I am surpried too.. because of the small size of the attacker.
But it was really hard on the Ravens (3 Ravens) and screamed loud ALL
the time.. even my wife got a litte nervous..

But of course it didn't try to "catch" the Ravens.. just scare them
away.. I think..

I have listened to a LOT of recordings with all possible birds.. and it
is really easy to hear that it was a Merlin.. we heard it for several
minutes..

//Ben

---

Beng Bengsson wrote:
> "Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in
> news:Bfwue.56639$Fe7.180476@news000.worldonline.dk:
>
>> Beng Bengsson wrote:
>>> "Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in
>>> news:kO_te.56403$Fe7.178115@news000.worldonline.dk:
>>>
>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:42b42407$0$18642 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>>>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:42b41600$0$18637 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor
>>>>>>>>> quality, check THIS one out !
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is for experts !
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree. The points to look for in comparison with other
>>>>>>>> falcons are
>>>>>>>> the comparatively short wings both in 'hand' and 'arm', thus
>>>>>>>> making the whole bird look 'compact'; and the protruding head,
>>>>>>>> which is a feature of Merlin. The bird clearly displays both of
>>>>>>>> those features,
>>>>>>>> so I go for Merlin too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok.. thanks for your opinion.. did you hear the sound ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, the page would not open for me. I'm no snob, though, since I
>>>>>> use IE6 (cue low-level intake of breath from assembled audience).
>>>>>> One thing I should have mentioned is that the Merlin also has,
>>>>>> becasue of its slightly broader 'arm' (inner part of the wing) a
>>>>>> tail which is medium length in relation to its body (longer than
>>>>>> Peregrine and Hobby, shorter than Kestrel), and rather parallel
>>>>>> and square-ended. The whole appearance is quite distinctive when
>>>>>> you know them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But.. I use IE6.. no problems clicking the soundlink.. Win MP
>>>>> opens and playes the sound..
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks for your analysis though.. as said earlier.. I learn
>>>>> from that. But of course, I cant ID this bird as a Merlin..
>>>>> althought I'm "in heart" know it IS a Merlin... I will go there
>>>>> again.. this time taking a movie.. not STILL picture.. impossible
>>>>> at those speeds.. I'm still a little "taken" by the action of that
>>>>> bird...
>>>>>
>>>> I don't belive a Merlin should be able to paralyse two ravens.
>>>> You need at least a goshawk or a Peregrine/Gyrfalcon to do scare
>>>> two ravens.
>>>> A Raven is at least twvice as big as a Merlin and about 5 time
>>>> heavier. How could you tell the size of the bird ??
>>>>
>>>> Mikkel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, the Ravens WERE so paralyzed that I could touch them if I
>>> wanted. They even moved towards my feet.. They didnt go anywhere as
>>> long as the Merlin(now identified) flew in the air. The size of the
>>> Merlin was easy to tell when it attacked the Ravens in the air..
>>> direct comparision !
>>>
>> Those ravens must have realy bad nerves. No one i have spoken with
>> have ever heard that a merlin should be able to scare the sh.. out
>> of a Raven.
>> I'm sendig the pictures to some hardcore experts.
>>
>> Mikkel
>>
>>
>
> Well.. I am surpried too.. because of the small size of the attacker.
> But it was really hard on the Ravens (3 Ravens) and screamed loud ALL
> the time.. even my wife got a litte nervous..
>
> But of course it didn't try to "catch" the Ravens.. just scare them
> away.. I think..
>
> I have listened to a LOT of recordings with all possible birds.. and
> it is really easy to hear that it was a Merlin.. we heard it for
> several minutes..

I must say i am supprised. You couldn't indentify a Willowwarbler from a
Chifchaf on the voice, you keep on sending us pictures of the most
common species, and now you are suddenly an expert in falcon voices
The most common sounds from free flying falcons is the kii kii kii
calls, and they are all rather similar. I think it will take a very
experienced birdwatcher to conclude the species. On my records the call
sound very much alike.
The fact that the falcon tried to scare the ravens away, could mean that
it was nesting somewhere close. You could try visit the location again
??
I still cant belive that such a small bird could paralyze two
ravens....they could easily feed their chicks with merlins

Regards Mikkel

---

Jens Mikkel Lausten wrote:
> I must say i am supprised. You couldn't indentify a Willowwarbler
> from a Chifchaf on the voice, you keep on sending us pictures of the
> most common species, and now you are suddenly an expert in falcon
> voices The most common sounds from free flying falcons is the
> kii kii kii calls, and they are all rather similar. I think it will
> take a very experienced birdwatcher to conclude the species.

Mikkel, we have a photograph. From that photograph the bird cannot be
anything else than a Merlin. There is no need for any in-depth
discussion here. I've been watching them for forty years. If that
isn't a Merlin I'd eat my hat, if I were the sort of person who wore
hats. If you think it's anything else I'd like to hear your reasons.
Note : the only European falcon I have not seen (and I have seen most
at length) is Gyr. But it certainly isn't that either.

Cheers,

--
Phil
http://philip.fotoblog.me.uk
Mainly Old Photos with an Edinburgh Connection
(More added recently).

---

Phil Wilson wrote:
> Jens Mikkel Lausten wrote:
>> I must say i am supprised. You couldn't indentify a Willowwarbler
>> from a Chifchaf on the voice, you keep on sending us pictures of the
>> most common species, and now you are suddenly an expert in falcon
>> voices The most common sounds from free flying falcons is the
>> kii kii kii calls, and they are all rather similar. I think it will
>> take a very experienced birdwatcher to conclude the species.


>
> Mikkel, we have a photograph.

Yes, a very bad one.

> From that photograph the bird cannot be
> anything else than a Merlin.

Thats you opinion, convince me if you can.

> There is no need for any in-depth
> discussion here.

Maybe I think there is !

>I've been watching them for forty years.

Me too, and so what...no ones perfect.

> If that
> isn't a Merlin I'd eat my hat,

I'll look forward to that

>if I were the sort of person who wore hats.

Any hat will do

> If you think it's anything else I'd like to hear your reasons.

> Note : the only European falcon I have not seen (and I have seen most
> at length) is Gyr. But it certainly isn't that either.

Note : I have seen many Gyr's, (Island, Sweden, Denmark), I have even
ringed both kestrels and merlins.
I have been ringing around 100.000 birds (not Gyr's ) and so what,
i can still be absolutely wrong !
I will not comment on the birds I have not seen.

As I told you, I don't think the picture will identify the bird clearly.
And the situation with the ravens makes me doubt Merlin.

I will wait for some expert statements.

By the way, we have in Denmark at little competition once a year. 30 of
the most experienced birdwatchers will try and identify birds on 50
dias.
No one have ever reached 40 right guesses so far. The picture quality
(or lack of) is about the same as Beng's.
It is very funny and quite instructive. Every one should try it.

Regards Mikkel

---

"Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in news:%
3Bue.56692$Fe7.181099@news000.worldonline.dk:

> Phil Wilson wrote:
>> Jens Mikkel Lausten wrote:
>>> I must say i am supprised. You couldn't indentify a Willowwarbler
>>> from a Chifchaf on the voice, you keep on sending us pictures of the
>>> most common species, and now you are suddenly an expert in falcon
>>> voices The most common sounds from free flying falcons is the
>>> kii kii kii calls, and they are all rather similar. I think it will
>>> take a very experienced birdwatcher to conclude the species.
>
>
>>
>> Mikkel, we have a photograph.
>
> Yes, a very bad one.
>
>> From that photograph the bird cannot be
>> anything else than a Merlin.
>
> Thats you opinion, convince me if you can.
>
>> There is no need for any in-depth
>> discussion here.
>
> Maybe I think there is !
>
>>I've been watching them for forty years.
>
> Me too, and so what...no ones perfect.
>
>> If that
>> isn't a Merlin I'd eat my hat,
>
> I'll look forward to that
>
>>if I were the sort of person who wore hats.
>
> Any hat will do
>
>> If you think it's anything else I'd like to hear your reasons.
>
>> Note : the only European falcon I have not seen (and I have seen most
>> at length) is Gyr. But it certainly isn't that either.
>
> Note : I have seen many Gyr's, (Island, Sweden, Denmark), I have even
> ringed both kestrels and merlins.
> I have been ringing around 100.000 birds (not Gyr's ) and so
what,
> i can still be absolutely wrong !
> I will not comment on the birds I have not seen.
>
> As I told you, I don't think the picture will identify the bird
clearly.
> And the situation with the ravens makes me doubt Merlin.
>
> I will wait for some expert statements.
>
> By the way, we have in Denmark at little competition once a year. 30
of
> the most experienced birdwatchers will try and identify birds on 50
> dias.
> No one have ever reached 40 right guesses so far. The picture quality
> (or lack of) is about the same as Beng's.
> It is very funny and quite instructive. Every one should try it.
>
> Regards Mikkel
>
>

Well as yuo pointed out earlier I'm a real newbie.. but I not blind..
and has the right to an opinion ?

I can't see what it is if not Merlin.. what did you think ? Kestrel ?

//Ben

---

Hello Beng

> Well as you pointed out earlier I'm a real newbie.. but I not blind..

No...have I said that ??
> and has the right to an opinion ?
Exactly, and thats the closet we will ever come, without better
pictures.

> I can't see what it is if not Merlin.. what did you think ? Kestrel ?
>
No, i'm thinking much bigger.

Mikkel

---

"Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in
news:jHDue.56708$Fe7.181657@news000.worldonline.dk:

> Hello Beng
>
>> Well as you pointed out earlier I'm a real newbie.. but I not blind..
>
> No...have I said that ??
>> and has the right to an opinion ?
> Exactly, and thats the closet we will ever come, without better
> pictures.
>
>> I can't see what it is if not Merlin.. what did you think ? Kestrel ?
>>
> No, i'm thinking much bigger.
>
> Mikkel
>
>

Then you ar far out.. sorry.. I had a picture with Falcon+Raven at the
same photo.. but it was SO poor so I threw it away.. didnt think of size
discussion then.. as I said several times.. the falcon was much much
smaller then Raven. We saw it close too.. maybe 10-15 m.. but it was so
fast so we wasnt able to see color/pattern and so on.. but size..
small.. Merlin !

Another thing, if you listen to the falcons/hawks that fits the size..
it IS easy to recognize the sound !!.. Yes ki ki kii... and so on.. but
this sound was hanging in my ears.. and I did a blindtest to my wife..
she knows NOTHING about birds.. she pointed out Merlin sound without any
problems !!

//Ben


//Ben

---

Jens Mikkel Lausten skrev:

>> I can't see what it is if not Merlin.. what did you think ? Kestrel ?

> No, i'm thinking much bigger.


Hej Mikkel

(Jeg svarer kun i den danske gruppe).

Mit spørgsmål er, om det at små falke som dværgfalk og
tårnfalk kan finde på at true store kragefugle, ikke kan
skyldes det faktum, at disse falke ofte yngler i årgamle
reder (fra fx kragefugle), og derfor må forsvare rederne mod
de tidligere beboere?

PÃ¥ side 733 i Ingvald Lieberkind Fugle II, er der en beretning
om et tårnfalkepar, der forsvarede en rede mod krager.

Nu forstår jeg ikke helt, hvorfor Bengs ravne blev *så*
skræmte af en lille falk, som det lader til, men kunne det
tænkes at der var tale om nogle unge og uerfarne ravne?

P.s.: Som jeg angiver i min signatur, ved jeg ikke ret meget.
Jeg er bare en nysgerrig amatør.

--
Med venlig hilsen Herluf Holdt
Nysgerrige Amatører - gør Verden sjovere

---

Hej Herluf
>
> Mit spørgsmål er, om det at små falke som dværgfalk og
> tårnfalk kan finde på at true store kragefugle, ikke kan
> skyldes det faktum, at disse falke ofte yngler i årgamle
> reder (fra fx kragefugle), og derfor må forsvare rederne mod
> de tidligere beboere?

Dværgfalke er nogle små hidsige krabater der sagtens kan forsvare sig
mod alskens kragefugle.
Jeg tror bare ikke på at en så lille falk kan paralysere 2 ravne.
Jeg har foreslået Beng om der kunne være en anden overflyvende rovfugl,
altså samtidig med en evt dværgfalk.
Problemet er at Beng ikke har givet os ret meget andet end et meget
dårligt billede der ikke udelukker ret mange arter.
Han har opgiver en størrelse der er både rigtig og forkert (20-30 cm.)
Vi får at vide at den er "Much much smaller" hvad det så er ?.
Han har faktisk intet fortalt om fuglen !!....på trods af at han har set
fuglen ganske tæt på !!
Beng er begynder, han kender ikke selv de almindeligste fugle. Derfor
min usikkerhed om bestemmelsen.

Hilsen Mikkel

---

"Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in
news:i6zue.56670$Fe7.180782@news000.worldonline.dk:

> Beng Bengsson wrote:
>> "Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in
>> news:Bfwue.56639$Fe7.180476@news000.worldonline.dk:
>>
>>> Beng Bengsson wrote:
>>>> "Jens Mikkel Lausten" <mlausten@worldonline.dk> wrote in
>>>> news:kO_te.56403$Fe7.178115@news000.worldonline.dk:
>>>>
>>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:42b42407$0$18642 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Phil Wilson" <philip.wilson@talk21.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:42b41600$0$18637 $14726298@news.sunsite.dk:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Beng wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, if you think that my earlier pictures stink of poor
>>>>>>>>>> quality, check THIS one out !
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is for experts !
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sound is included.. even poorer qual. than pictures..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My guess= Merlin (Falco columbarius)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree. The points to look for in comparison with other
>>>>>>>>> falcons are
>>>>>>>>> the comparatively short wings both in 'hand' and 'arm', thus
>>>>>>>>> making the whole bird look 'compact'; and the protruding head,
>>>>>>>>> which is a feature of Merlin. The bird clearly displays both
of
>>>>>>>>> those features,
>>>>>>>>> so I go for Merlin too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ok.. thanks for your opinion.. did you hear the sound ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, the page would not open for me. I'm no snob, though, since I
>>>>>>> use IE6 (cue low-level intake of breath from assembled
audience).
>>>>>>> One thing I should have mentioned is that the Merlin also has,
>>>>>>> becasue of its slightly broader 'arm' (inner part of the wing) a
>>>>>>> tail which is medium length in relation to its body (longer than
>>>>>>> Peregrine and Hobby, shorter than Kestrel), and rather parallel
>>>>>>> and square-ended. The whole appearance is quite distinctive when
>>>>>>> you know them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But.. I use IE6.. no problems clicking the soundlink.. Win MP
>>>>>> opens and playes the sound..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many thanks for your analysis though.. as said earlier.. I learn
>>>>>> from that. But of course, I cant ID this bird as a Merlin..
>>>>>> althought I'm "in heart" know it IS a Merlin... I will go there
>>>>>> again.. this time taking a movie.. not STILL picture.. impossible
>>>>>> at those speeds.. I'm still a little "taken" by the action of
that
>>>>>> bird...
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't belive a Merlin should be able to paralyse two ravens.
>>>>> You need at least a goshawk or a Peregrine/Gyrfalcon to do scare
>>>>> two ravens.
>>>>> A Raven is at least twvice as big as a Merlin and about 5 time
>>>>> heavier. How could you tell the size of the bird ??
>>>>>
>>>>> Mikkel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, the Ravens WERE so paralyzed that I could touch them if I
>>>> wanted. They even moved towards my feet.. They didnt go anywhere as
>>>> long as the Merlin(now identified) flew in the air. The size of the
>>>> Merlin was easy to tell when it attacked the Ravens in the air..
>>>> direct comparision !
>>>>
>>> Those ravens must have realy bad nerves. No one i have spoken with
>>> have ever heard that a merlin should be able to scare the sh.. out
>>> of a Raven.
>>> I'm sendig the pictures to some hardcore experts.
>>>
>>> Mikkel
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well.. I am surpried too.. because of the small size of the attacker.
>> But it was really hard on the Ravens (3 Ravens) and screamed loud ALL
>> the time.. even my wife got a litte nervous..
>>
>> But of course it didn't try to "catch" the Ravens.. just scare them
>> away.. I think..
>>
>> I have listened to a LOT of recordings with all possible birds.. and
>> it is really easy to hear that it was a Merlin.. we heard it for
>> several minutes..
>
> I must say i am supprised. You couldn't indentify a Willowwarbler from
a
> Chifchaf on the voice, you keep on sending us pictures of the most
> common species, and now you are suddenly an expert in falcon voices

> The most common sounds from free flying falcons is the kii kii kii
> calls, and they are all rather similar. I think it will take a very
> experienced birdwatcher to conclude the species. On my records the
call
> sound very much alike.
> The fact that the falcon tried to scare the ravens away, could mean
that
> it was nesting somewhere close. You could try visit the location again
> ??
> I still cant belive that such a small bird could paralyze two
> ravens....they could easily feed their chicks with merlins
>
> Regards Mikkel
>
>

Well.. it was not ONLY the sound.. the size excludes most of the
others.. even for a non-expert like me.

Furthermore, a couple of real experts had seen the bird a couple of days
before me.. and knew were the nest was..

So, i'm 99% sure of Merlin.. 99% satisfy me..

It was a... hold on... Merlin !!

//Ben

---

Hello Beng
>
> Well.. it was not ONLY the sound.. the size excludes most of the
> others.. even for a non-expert like me.

> Furthermore, a couple of real experts had seen the bird a couple of
> days before me.. and knew were the nest was..

And you are of course 100 % sure that it is the same bird.
And if you are, how can you be sure ??
If you know what bird you have photographed why are you asking for
identity ??

> So, i'm 99% sure of Merlin.. 99% satisfy me..

If thats ok for you, fine with me.
If you read the litterature you will find that the behaviour of the
ravens clearly indicates much bigger raptors.
No one I have spoken with believe that a merlin could trigger that
behaviour.
Domestic pidgeons and hens are known to play dead when a Goshawk passes
by.

Could there have been an other bigger raptor
(Goshawk/Peregrine/Gyrfalcon) flying around, which you didn't see.
You must understand that I don't put much weight on the picture, much
more on the behaviour of the ravens.
You will by the time experience, that most often you will discover
raptors by the help of other bird behaviour.
Ospreys will bring gulls to their wings, eagles will chase flocks of
geese to escape, you will find a sparrowhawk by the alarm sounds from
swallows and wagtails.
Keep on bringing them poor pictures.

Regards Mikkel