---

Giordano Bruno

Every time we, in the past 500 years, thought we enjoyed a unique
cosmic situation, we were wrong. (1)

The sun did not revolve around the earth which Copernicus demonstrated
in his treatise 'On the Revolution of the Heavenly Spheres' published
in 1543 on the day he died.

The earth did rotate – like the other planets orbiting in ellipses
around the sun as Galileo demonstrated in 'Dialogue on the Two Chief
World Systems' published in 1632. And when Galileo as the first
applied the telescope to study the sky, he observed that the nebulous
band of the Milky Way was resolved into a myriad of stars. (2) Six
months after the publication of Galileo's book, he was summoned to
Rome to face the Catholic Inquisition and there, on account of his
defence of Copernicanism, he was found guilty of heresy and had to
remain under house arrest for the rest of his life.

This was a trifle, however, compared to the fate the Catholic Church
meted out to Giordano Bruno who in 'On the Infinite Universe and
Worlds' in 1584 aired the intuition that: "Innumerable suns exist;
innumerable earths revolve around these suns in a manner similar to
the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings
inhabit these worlds". (3) Faced with such a dangerous heresy, the
spiritual guide of Christianity, the Catholic Church, of course had to
intervene and Giordano Bruno was duly condemned to the stake. Before
dying in this extremely painful way, a nail was hammered through his
tongue. Since this misdeed, and with its subsequent saveage
determination to kill important scientific advances, it seems fair to
ask whether the Catholic Church is entitled to retain possession of
its – unique – leading position?

The world picture changed radically during the European Renaissance.
But it is first at the approaching encounter with the planetary
candidates for intelligent life in solar systems near to us (4) that
we, finally, understand the full extent of the intellectual
achievement of European astronomers and philosophers in this era.
Copernicus, Kepler, and Galileo reached full recognition a few decades
after their death for their clear and rather precise description of
our solar system.

Measurement, observation, and rational, unprejudiced thought were
instrumental in this endeavour. The next, natural step was to attempt
to determine the composition and structure of the cosmos outside our
solar system. Here observation and measurement with the primitive
instruments of that time were immediately of little use, which did not
make Giordano Bruno desist from conjecturing about and visualizing the
rest of the Universe, what the self-opinionated Catholic Church and
numerous scholars and astronomers otherwise, with withering sarcasm,
even to this day, thought he should.

Giordano Bruno's affiliation to the hermetic tradition has often been
held up against him (5, 6), but in reality almost all Renaissance
astronomers, incl. Kepler and my superstitious compatriot Tycho Brahe
were fascinated by spiritual currents that were certainly not pervaded
by rational thought.

The long-drawn-out search to find fault with Giordano Bruno's
achievement includes blaming Bruno for not having understood the
Copernican heliocentric model properly. The truth is, however, that
the implications of the Copernican model had escaped most astronomers
just after the publication of De Revolutionibus. (7)

Giordano Bruno was the first serious student in the Renaissance of the
cosmology of Lucretius (99-55 B.C.). Lucretius asserted that the
Universe was infinite. (8) That Bruno had the courage to publish On
the Infinite Universe and Worlds conjecturing that the Universe must
contain a multitude of such comparatively simple structures as solar
systems and that some of the planets
of the solar systems are due to be habitated by humans ought to
bring him the credit which is his due - at 400 years' delay.

In 2001, Martin Rees, Astronomer Royal of Great Britain, stated: "The
concept of 'a plurality of inhabited worlds' has, ever since (Bruno)
had surprisingly sustained support." (9)

Small wonder, today we have to re-state the achievement of the
scholars of the Renaissance as follows:

On the basis of observation and measurement of relations within our
solar system - *and intuition and conjecture unstoppably
transgressing its borders, once the idea that the earth was not
the centre of the world had taken root*, they arrived at a vision
of our habitated sun system as
one out of many in the cosmos.

This concept will, to all appearances, be confirmed in this or the
next decade.

Steen Hjortsø

References:

1. Shostak, Seth: Is there other Intelligent Life in the Universe ?
Prospect, June 2000.

2. Chapman, Robert D.: Discovering Astronomy. San Francisco: W.H.
Freeman, 1978.

3. Astrobiology's Most Wanted. A failure to recant resulted in the
strange case of Giordano Bruno.
http://www.science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast21_may99_2.htm

4. Lunine, Jonathan I.: In search of planets and life around other
stars.
PNAS Online, Vol. 96, Issue 10, May 11, 1999.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/96/10/5353

5. Goldish, Matt: Giordano Bruno and the Kabbalah: Prophets,
Magicians, and Rabbis. Journal of the History of Philosophy. Berkeley,
October 1999.

6. Gatti, Hilary: The State of Giordano Bruno Studies at the End of
the Four-Hundreth Centenary of the Philospher's Death. Renaissance
Quarterly, Spring 2001.

7. Zeilik, Michael: Astronomy. The Evolving Universe. 9th ed..
Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2002.

8. Koyré, Alexandre: Von der geschlossenen Welt zum unendlichen
Universum. Frankfurt: Suhrkamp, 1980.

9. Rees, Martin: Our Cosmic Habitat. London: Weidenfeld & Nicolson,
2001.

---

Ifølge nogle så rotere solen omkring jorden og jorden omkring solen, man
skal bare se bredt nok, det er grunden til at man ikke har set det før.

Ole

---

"Steen Hjortsoe" <contra@tdcspace.dk> wrote in message
news:37cec683.0305161020.5a8884f7@posting.google.com...
> Giordano Bruno
>
> Every time we, in the past 500 years, thought we enjoyed a unique
> cosmic situation, we were wrong. (1)
>
> The sun did not revolve around the earth which Copernicus demonstrated
> in his treatise 'On the Revolution of the Heavenly Spheres' published
> in 1543 on the day he died.
>
> The earth did rotate - like the other planets orbiting in ellipses
> around the sun as Galileo demonstrated in 'Dialogue on the Two Chief
> World Systems' published in 1632. And when Galileo as the first
> applied the telescope to study the sky, he observed that the nebulous
> band of the Milky Way was resolved into a myriad of stars. (2) Six
> months after the publication of Galileo's book, he was summoned to
> Rome to face the Catholic Inquisition and there, on account of his
> defence of Copernicanism, he was found guilty of heresy and had to
> remain under house arrest for the rest of his life.
>
> This was a trifle, however, compared to the fate the Catholic Church
> meted out to Giordano Bruno who in 'On the Infinite Universe and
> Worlds' in 1584 aired the intuition that: "Innumerable suns exist;
> innumerable earths revolve around these suns in a manner similar to
> the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings
> inhabit these worlds". (3) Faced with such a dangerous heresy, the
> spiritual guide of Christianity, the Catholic Church, of course had to
> intervene and Giordano Bruno was duly condemned to the stake. Before
> dying in this extremely painful way, a nail was hammered through his
> tongue. Since this misdeed, and with its subsequent saveage
> determination to kill important scientific advances, it seems fair to
> ask whether the Catholic Church is entitled to retain possession of
> its - unique - leading position?
>
> The world picture changed radically during the European Renaissance.
> But it is first at the approaching encounter with the planetary
> candidates for intelligent life in solar systems near to us (4) that
> we, finally, understand the full extent of the intellectual
> achievement of European astronomers and philosophers in this era.
> Copernicus, Kepler, and Galileo reached full recognition a few decades
> after their death for their clear and rather precise description of
> our solar system.
>
> Measurement, observation, and rational, unprejudiced thought were
> instrumental in this endeavour. The next, natural step was to attempt
> to determine the composition and structure of the cosmos outside our
> solar system. Here observation and measurement with the primitive
> instruments of that time were immediately of little use, which did not
> make Giordano Bruno desist from conjecturing about and visualizing the
> rest of the Universe, what the self-opinionated Catholic Church and
> numerous scholars and astronomers otherwise, with withering sarcasm,
> even to this day, thought he should.
>
> Giordano Bruno's affiliation to the hermetic tradition has often been
> held up against him (5, 6), but in reality almost all Renaissance
> astronomers, incl. Kepler and my superstitious compatriot Tycho Brahe
> were fascinated by spiritual currents that were certainly not pervaded
> by rational thought.
>
> The long-drawn-out search to find fault with Giordano Bruno's
> achievement includes blaming Bruno for not having understood the
> Copernican heliocentric model properly. The truth is, however, that
> the implications of the Copernican model had escaped most astronomers
> just after the publication of De Revolutionibus. (7)
>
> Giordano Bruno was the first serious student in the Renaissance of the
> cosmology of Lucretius (99-55 B.C.). Lucretius asserted that the
> Universe was infinite. (8) That Bruno had the courage to publish On
> the Infinite Universe and Worlds conjecturing that the Universe must
> contain a multitude of such comparatively simple structures as solar
> systems and that some of the planets
> of the solar systems are due to be habitated by humans ought to
> bring him the credit which is his due - at 400 years' delay.
>
J Hoffmeier nævner igår i Politiken at GB-tesen var ikke primært
Copernicus's men en farligere kættersk ånd-i-naturen tanke.

Som kunne have forstyrret stabiliteten i middelaldersamfundene, lissom Falun
Gong kan i Kina.

Kineserne er humane - det er vi ikke mod de psykiatriske afvigere og mange
andre.
Og værst er USA der lader negre skyde negre i tusindvis årligt for at få et
ellers stabilt samfund - Men Bush-fans insisterer at VI ER DE GODE OG
USAFJENDERNE ER ONDE

"The fault is in us" skrev Hannah Arendt.

Lad os ikke tro vi er blevet tolerantere end G Brunos tid var

I Tyskland fængsles for at betvivle holocaust - Glistrup har fået
fængselsdom for at tale sandt om Islam osv osv

---

"Bo Warming" <XUMPEYFQNLVX@spammotel.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:JGzxa.5933$Bv4.1166@fe07.atl2.webusenet.com...

> Kineserne er humane - det er vi ikke mod de psykiatriske afvigere og mange
> andre.

Nej tænk, er kineserne nu også humane? Hvordan kan det så være at de har så
store problemer med at leve op til Menneskerettighederne?

--
Mvh
Anders Peter Johnsen

---

"Anders Peter Johnsen" <anderspj@mail.dk> wrote in message
news:3ec798ca$0$24649$edfadb0f@dread14.news.tele.dk...
> "Bo Warming" <XUMPEYFQNLVX@spammotel.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:JGzxa.5933$Bv4.1166@fe07.atl2.webusenet.com...
>
> > Kineserne er humane - det er vi ikke mod de psykiatriske afvigere og
mange
> > andre.
>
> Nej tænk, er kineserne nu også humane? Hvordan kan det så være at de har
så
> store problemer med at leve op til Menneskerettighederne?

Alle vesterlandske og mellemøstlige religioner er intolerante
også menneskerettighedsreligionen

Den handler ikke - som det kinesiske system - om størst mulig lykke for
flest mulig.

Den ny FN-religion er moraliserende, altså ulykkesskabende.
Skrivebordsteoretisk

HER LIDT OM MORAL, som aldrig har gavnet menneskeheden

Den empirisk-moralske verden består for største delen kun af ond vilje og
misundelse. Goethe

mru Good people do a great deal of harm in this world Oscar
Wilde

mru Men have become suffering creatures in consequence of
their morals.Nietzsche

mru Men have become suffering creatures in consequence of their
morals.Nietzsche

mru Men have become suffering creatures in consequence of their morals.
Nietzsche Mennesket er blevet et lidende væsen pga sin moral.
Nietzsche

mru Moral er noget, vi påtager os for at be-grænse os, for
ikke at blive alene, for ikke at blive skyldige. Moral er
destruk-tiv./Moral is something we proclaim in order to limit ourselves, in
order not to be alone, in order not to be guilty. Moral is destructive.
Leif Panduro

mru Næstekærlighed er trang efter ny ejendom.Nietzsche

mru Næstekærlighed skaber en mangfoldighed af synder.Oscar Wilde

MRu The intolerance of the moral is an expression of the
weakness of mankind. Friedrich Nietzsche

mru Who is bad? He who always want to put others to shame What is most
humane? To spare others shame.Nietzsche

mruNow it seems to me that love of some kind is the only possible
explanation of the extraordinary amount of suffering that there is in the
world. Oscar Wilde Whatever harm the evil may do, the harm done by the good
is the most harmful harm. Nietzsche

mruu Moral prejudices. Certainly the greatest harm that they do, is, that
they make badness of such extraordinarily importance. Oscar Wilde

mruu Moralen er meget ofte skalkeskjul for bagvaskelsen.
Napoleon

mruu Now it seems to me that love of some kind, is the only possible
explanation of the extraordinary amount of suffering, that there is in the
world. Oscar Wilde

Mrx "At man tror på moraliseren er ikke bevis på at man opfører sig
moralsk. " Nietzsche

Mrx "At prædike moral er lige så let, som det er svært at etablere og
overholde moral. " Nietzsche

mrx "Du må ikke røve! Du må ikke ihjelslå!" - sådanne ord kaldte man
engang hellige; dem bøjede man knæ og hoved for, dem tog man skoene af for.
Men jeg spørger jer: hvor var der nogensinde bedre røvere og drabsmænd i
verden, end sådanne hellige ord selv har været det?
Ligger det ikke i alt liv selv at røve og slå ihjel? Og derved sådanne ord
kaldtes hellige, blev sandheden så ikke derved selv - slået ihjel?
Eller var det ikke en dødsprædiken at kalde dét helligt, der modsagde og
modsatte sig alt liv? - Åh, mine brødre, knus, knus de gamle tavler.n

mrx At prædike moralen er lige så let, som det er svært at realisere
moralen . Nietzsche

mrx Begær, følelser, lidenskaber er de eneste mulige bevæggrunde til
handling. Fornuften er ikke en bevæggrund, men kun en regulator.
Bertrand Russell

mrx Den moralske Forargelse er den perfideste Slags Hævn.
Oscar Wilde

mrx Enhver form for orden er vold. Gottfried Benn

mrx Good people do a great deal of harm in this world Oscar Wilde

mrx I never came across anyone in whom the moral sense was dominant who
was not heartless, cruel, vindictive, log-stupid, and entirely lacking in
the smallest sense of humanity. Moral people, as they are termed, are
simple beasts. I would sooner have fifty natural vices than one unnatural
virtue
Oscar Wilde

mrx I tænkningen findes der ikke noget, der hedder moral eller umoral. Oscar
Wilde

mrx Man's judgements of value follow directly his wishes for
happiness--they are an attempt to support his illusions with arguments.
Sigmund Freud

mrx Moralen er umoralsk i samme grad som den træder i samvittigheden sted
og skaber samvittighedsløse mennesker. Georg Wulff

mrx Morality is contraband in war. Mohandas Gandhi

mrx Morality is opposed to the formation of new and better
morals , it stupifies Nietzsche

mrx Når vi tror på moraliseren, fordømmer vi eksistens. Nietzsche

mrx People become moral, when they are unhappy. Marcel Proust

Mrx Regler distraherer vor opmærksomhed væk fra det basale sigte, som
reglen har, og regler gør os tankeløse. Nietzsche (derfor ønsker Glistrup
ikke vedtægter og ikke stor lovjungle).

mrx The brain may devise laws for the blood, but a hot temper leaps o'er
a cold decree. Shakespeare

mrx To make a vow for life is to make oneself a slave.
Voltaire

mry "In England a man who cannot talk morality twice a week to a large,
popular, immoral audience, is quite over as a serious politician" says
Oscar Wilde in his play "The ideal husbond"

mry "Your love for your neighbor is only love for yourself" Nietzsche La
Rochefouceauld

Mry Den moralske Forargelse er den perfideste Slags
Hævn.Oscar Wilde

mry Det er meningsløst at dele mennesker i gode og
onde.Mennesker er enten indtagende eller kedsommelige.Oscar Wilde

mry Det, som verden kalder dyd, er i reglen blot et fantasifoster dannet
af vore lidenskaber, som man har givet et agtværdigt navn for at gøre det,
man har lyst til, fri for straf. Nietzsche

mry Ethical man -- a Christian holding four aces.Mark Twain

mry I never approve or disapprove of anything new.
It is an absurd attitude to take towards life
We are not sent inth the world to air our moral prejudices.
I have never taken any notice of what common people say, and I never
interfere with what charming people do"Oscar Wilde

MRy If we had no vices ourselves we should take less pleasure in
identifying those of others. La
Rochefoucauld

mry Judging morally is the favourite revenge of the intellectually shallow
on those who are lees so. It is also an opportunity for becoming subtle.
Malice spiritualizes. Nietzsche

mry Kristendom, revolution, slaveriets ophævelse, ligeret,
menneskekærlighed, fredselskende folk, retfærdighed, sandhed - alle disse
store ord har kun betydning i kamp - ikke som udtryk for realiteter, men som
lokkeord for noget ganske andet (ja, endog for det modsatte!). Nietzsche

mry Master - morality and slave - morality. Friedrich
Nietzsche

Mry Mennesket er det grusomste dyr, ikke mindst mod sig selv.
Med dyden gjorde det ulven til hund og mennesket selv til menneskets bedste
husdyr.Nietzsche

Mry Moral er ikke andet end den Holding, vi indtager over for Folk, som vi
personlig ikke kan lide. Oscar Wilde

mry Moral er ikke andet end den Holding, vi indtager over for Folk, som
vi personlig ikke kan lide. Oscar Wilde

mry Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.
H. G. Wells

mry Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. H.G. Wells

mry Moralen fikser europæeren op til noget fornemmere,
betydningsfuldere, anselige til noget "guddommeligt" Nietzsche

mry Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people, whom we
personally dislike. Oscar Wilde

mry Morality is the herd-instinct in the individual.
Friedrich Nietzsche

mry Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.Mark
Twain

Mry Nu bliver han dydig, kun for at gøre andre ondt dermed.
Se ikke så meget efter ham Nietzsche

mry Når vor dyd har sovet, vågner den op og er mere frisk. Nietzsche

Mry Sandelig, jeg lo ofte ad de svæklinge, der anså sig for
gode, fordi de havde lamme poter Nietzsche

mry Satan hasn't a single salaried helper; the Opposition
employs a million.Mark Twain

mry Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others
to live as one wishes to live. Oscar Wilde"You ought to be a doctor, as you
always want people to do, what they don't want to do". Oscar Wilde

mryy Moral er menneskets vigtigmageri over for
naturen.Friedrich Nietzsche

mryy Puritanisme... hjælper os til at nyde vores elendighed, mens vi påfører
andre den. Marcel Ophuls

mryyy The pure at heart may sleep better
but sinners enjoy their waking hours
much more.

MRz Nobody deserves to be praised for his goodness if he has not the power
to be wicked. All other goodness is often only weakness and impotence of
the will. La Rochefoucauld

MRz I love mankind - it's people I can't stand.
Charles M. Schulz ("Peanuts" cartoon)

mrz There is a sleeping cop in all of us, He must be killed.
Grafiti Paris 1968

MRz "Det vi selv er gode til, skal være gøres til moral for ALLE"!
sir mennesket, og derved opstod al moral, siger Nietzsche , den største
moral-relativist til alle tider.

Mrz "Moral undergaard konstant ændringer skabt af succesrig
forbrydelse" Nietzsche

mrz As soon as one is unhappy, one becomes moral. Marcel Proust

mrz At dømme moralsk er den foretrukne hævn for den intellektuelt
snævertsynede, imod dem der er mindre intelektuelt snævertsynede. Det er
også en anledning til at være underfundig. Ondskabsfuldhed gør åndrig.
Nietzsche

mrz At man tror på moral er ikke bevis på at man er moralsk. Nietzsche

mrz Der skal rituelt skabes en "behagelig følelse af ydmyghed".Nietzsche

Mrz Det vi lettest lykkes i, - vår forfengelighet - vil at
nettop det skal gjælde som det vanskeligste. Det er opprindelsen til mang en
moral.
Det vi lettest lykkes i - vor forfængelighed, vil at netop det skal gælde
som det vanskeligste.
Det er oprindelsen til mangen moral.Nietzsche

mrz Det, som verden kalder dyd, er i reglen blot et fantasifoster dannet
af vore lidenskaber, som man har givet et agtværdigt navn for at gøre det,
man har lyst til, fri for straf.

mrz Du ska prædike troen til du har den, da vil du prædike den fordi du
har den Nietzsche /Wesley

mrz En filosofs moral giver et tydeligt vidnedsbyrd om HVEM
han er - dvs om rangordningen mellem de inderste drifter i hans natur.
Nietzsche

mrz Ethical axioms are found and tested not very differently from the
axioms of science. Truth is what stands the test of experience.
Einstein

mrz Europæeren forklæder sig med moralen, fordi han er blevet et sygt,
sygeligt og forkrøblet dyr, der har gode grunde til at være tamt"Nietzsche

Mrz Fariseismen er ikke en pervertering av et godt menneske.
Et stykke på vei er den snarere en betingelse for all godhet.
Nietzsche

mrz Great well-being arises from comtemplating Natures
indiferrence to good and evil. Nietzsche

mrz Historien drejer sig næsten kun om ONDE MÆND som senere blev anerkendt
som GODE MÆND. Nietzsche

mrz Hvis vi modstår vore lidenskaber, er det snarere på grund af deres
svaghed end på grund af vor styrke. La Rochefoucauld

mrz If you pretend to be good, the world takes you seriously. If you
pretend to be bad, it does'nt. Such is the astounding stupidity of optimism.
Oscar Wilde

mrz If you think a thing evil, you make it evil. Nietzsche

mrz Mongoler har regler om at man ikke må skrabe sne af skoene med en
kniv, ikke spidde kul med kniv, ikke lægger jern i ilden - for at opretholde
vedvarende bevidsthed om moralens nærhed - den uafbrudte tvang til at
overholde moralen og bekræfte de store ord, som civilisationen begynder
med: "enhver moral er bedre end ingen moral".

mrz Moral er først og fremmest et middel til overhovedet at bevare
samfundet og afværge dets undergang. Dernæst et middel til at holde
samfundet oppe på en vis højde og kvalitet. Dens motiver er frygt og håb
Nietzsche

mrz Moral is always the last solution for people, who does not
appreciate beauty. Oscar Wilde

mrz Moral undergår altid forandringer som skabes af succesrig forbrydelse.
Nietzsche

mrz Moralen er et permanent angreb på den stærkeres ret.
/ The moral is a permanent attack on the rights of the stronger.
Thomas Niederreuther

mrz Moralilty is opposed to the formation of new and better morals , it
stupifies Nietzsche

mrz Moraliseren er skadelig for dannelse at ny moral - dennes udvikling
stivner. Nietzsche

MRz Moralisterne må nu fortiden finde sig i at blive skældt ud for
immoralister, fordi de obducerer moralen - Men den, der vil obducere må
dræbe: dog kun for at der i fremtiden kan vides, drømmes og leves bedre,
ikke for at al verden skal obducere. De ældre moralister obducerede ikke nok
og prædikede altfor hyppigt.Nietzsche

Mrz Now the faith in God is dead, the question arises once more, Who
speaks" . My answer taken from biology, not metaphysics, is "the _gregarious
_ instinct speaks.

mrz Når ingen vind blæser, har selv vind- og vejrhanerne karakter.
Stanislaw Jerzy Lec

mrz Over-dyret. - Bestiet i os vil lyves for; moral er nødløgn, for at vi
ikke skal blive revet i stykker af det. Uden de fejltagelser, der ligger i
moralens antagelser, ville mennesket være forblevet dyr.

mrz RITUALER Det er absurd og afsindigt, at man viser lydighed mod
sædvanerne. Nietzsche

mrz Tabuer har tydeligvis kun det formål at opretholde en vedvarende
bevidsthed om moralens vedvarende nærhed, den uafbrudte tvang til at
overholde den: til bekræftelse af det store ord, som civilisationen begynder
med: enhver moral er bedre end ingen moral.

mrz The intolerance of the moral is an expression of the weakness of
mankind. Friedrich Nietzsche

mrz The sheperd drives the wolf from the sheep's throat, for which the
sheep thanks the sheperd as his liberator, while the wolf denounces him for
the same act as the destroyer of liberty. Abraham
Lincoln

mrz Thoughts concering moral prejudices, if they are not to
be prejudices themselves, presuppose a position outside of morality. That
one should wish to get outside of morality may be a sort of madness. In any
case the question remains, whether one can really get there. Nietzsche

mrz To accept a belief only because it is customary implies that one is
dishonest, cowardly and lazy.Nietzsche

mrz Uden de fejltagelser, som ligger i moralens antagelser, ville
mennesket være forblevet et dyr.Nietzsche

mrz Veracity is the heart of morality. Thomas Huxley

mrz Vi immoralister har brug for moralens magt. Vore instinkter for
selvbevarelse insisterer på at vore modstandere vedligeholder deres styrke.
Nietzsche

mrz Vi klager ikke over at naturen er umoralsk, når den sender os en
tordenstorm og gør os våde. Hvorfor klager vi over dem der sårer os, er
umoralske? We do not complain of nature as immoral,
because it send a thunderstorm and makes us wet.
Why then do we call those, who injure us immoral? Nietzsche

mrz Vi prædiker ofte vor tro, fordi vi har mistet den.
Nietzsche

mrz. Frygt: moralens moder. Friedrich Nietzsche

Mrz. In morals, always do as others do; in art, never.
Jules Renard

mrzfm Moral er i første omgang et middel til overhovedet at
opretholde fælleskabet og bevare det mod undergangen; dernæst er den et
middel til at holde fællesskabet på et vist niveu og i en vis kvalitet. Dens
motiv er frygt og håb. Nietzsche

mrzGodhed er mangel på styrke til at være ond. Nietzsche

ormr Der findes hverken moralske eller umoralske bøger. Bøger
er ganske enkelt enten godt eller dårligt skrevet. Oscar Wilde

---

Bo Warming wrote:

> Den handler ikke - som det kinesiske system - om størst mulig lykke
> for flest mulig.

Også for tibetanerne?

Niels Peter

---

On Mon, 19 May 2003 16:18:46 +0200, "Niels Peter" <mail@bluewhite.dk>
wrote:

>Bo Warming wrote:
>
>> Den handler ikke - som det kinesiske system - om størst mulig lykke
>> for flest mulig.
>
>Også for tibetanerne?

Sikkert ikke. Dessuten er ikke "størst mulig lykke for flest mulig"
typisk kinesisk system, men utilitaristisk. Og da er vi på 1800-tallet
i England.


--
Saluton, Knut

TTT norvegia: http://home.online.no/~knklaveh/index.cfm
Retposxto: heidelberg@operamail.com (legota cxiumonata)

Nifonov no longer possessed a left leg, but he only
discovered it on the following day. (V. Panova: The Train.)

---

"Knut KlavenessHeidelberg" <heidelbergNOSPAM@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:j2shcvgumleq95ik7so11lo8c71nd7dlk1@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 May 2003 16:18:46 +0200, "Niels Peter" <mail@bluewhite.dk>
> wrote:
>
> >Bo Warming wrote:
> >
> >> Den handler ikke - som det kinesiske system - om størst mulig lykke
> >> for flest mulig.
> >
> >Også for tibetanerne?
>
> Sikkert ikke. Dessuten er ikke "størst mulig lykke for flest mulig"
> typisk kinesisk system, men utilitaristisk. Og da er vi på 1800-tallet
> i England.

Bentham og Stuart Mill fantaserede om utilitarisme men det realiseredes
aldrig.
Alle lande har mafiøse netværk og markedsfrihed har heller ikke været
afprøvet nogetsteds nogensinde.

Konfuzianske kulturer er nok lidt nærmere idealet end velfærdsstater hos
os - når bortses fra at opiumskrig smadrede Kina så de sattes 100 år tilbage
pga UK-USA koloniondskab.

---

On Mon, 19 May 2003 17:27:22 +0200, "Bo Warming"
<XUMPEYFQNLVX@spammotel.com> wrote:

>Bentham og Stuart Mill fantaserede om utilitarisme men det realiseredes
>aldrig.
>Alle lande har mafiøse netværk og markedsfrihed har heller ikke været
>afprøvet nogetsteds nogensinde.
>
>Konfuzianske kulturer er nok lidt nærmere idealet end velfærdsstater hos
>os - når bortses fra at opiumskrig smadrede Kina så de sattes 100 år tilbage
>pga UK-USA koloniondskab.
>
Sier du at Kina representerer konfuzianske kulturer?


--
Saluton, Knut

TTT norvegia: http://home.online.no/~knklaveh/index.cfm
Retposxto: heidelberg@operamail.com (legota cxiumonata)

Nifonov no longer possessed a left leg, but he only
discovered it on the following day. (V. Panova: The Train.)

---

"Knut KlavenessHeidelberg" <heidelbergNOSPAM@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:4iuhcvs51selh8kkrtsae5qa5gom7n73cj@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 May 2003 17:27:22 +0200, "Bo Warming"
> <XUMPEYFQNLVX@spammotel.com> wrote:
>
> >Bentham og Stuart Mill fantaserede om utilitarisme men det realiseredes
> >aldrig.
> >Alle lande har mafiøse netværk og markedsfrihed har heller ikke været
> >afprøvet nogetsteds nogensinde.
> >
> >Konfuzianske kulturer er nok lidt nærmere idealet end velfærdsstater hos
> >os - når bortses fra at opiumskrig smadrede Kina så de sattes 100 år
tilbage
> >pga UK-USA koloniondskab.
> >
> Sier du at Kina representerer konfuzianske kulturer?

Mao kaldte sit styre kommunistisk, fordi han sku bruge Stalins eksperter til
at modernisere stålindustrien, men private markeder og småfirmaer har altid
været vigtigere end centralistisk planøkonomi

På sine gamle dage indrømmede Mao at det var en ungdomsfejl at han
kritiserede Konfutze - at dennes markedsøkonomi er bærende og har altid
været bærende.

---

"Niels Peter" <mail@bluewhite.dk> wrote in message
news:3ec8e768$0$48916$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
> Bo Warming wrote:
>
> > Den handler ikke - som det kinesiske system - om størst mulig lykke
> > for flest mulig.
>
> Også for tibetanerne?

Tibetanere kan du sammenligne med indianere hvis land cowboys overtog
Tibetanernes feudale grusomme system var ineffektivt - de kunne ligesom
indianerne kun brødføde en promille af de mennesker som landet idag
brødføder
Men kineserne er mere humanere end amerikanerne var

De har stjålet landet med samme stærkestes ret som cowboys tog landet.
Men tibetanerne har det bedre idag end før - gælder det om indianerne der er
på druk og de fleste døde i reservater?

---

Bo Warming wrote:

> Men tibetanerne har det bedre idag end før

Ja, så er de jo nogle utaknemmelige bæster, siden de ikke er spor glade
for kineserne ..

Niels Peter

---

On Mon, 19 May 2003 18:12:38 +0200, "Niels Peter" <mail@bluewhite.dk>
wrote:

>Bo Warming wrote:
>
>> Men tibetanerne har det bedre idag end før
>
>Ja, så er de jo nogle utaknemmelige bæster, siden de ikke er spor glade
>for kineserne ..

Ja, fysj a'meg. Disse utakknemlige tibetanerne ... ... ...


--
Saluton, Knut

TTT norvegia: http://home.online.no/~knklaveh/index.cfm
Retposxto: heidelberg@operamail.com (legota cxiumonata)

Nifonov no longer possessed a left leg, but he only
discovered it on the following day. (V. Panova: The Train.)

---

"Anders Peter Johnsen" <anderspj@mail.dk> wrote in message
news:3ec798ca$0$24649$edfadb0f@dread14.news.tele.dk...
> Nej tænk, er kineserne nu også humane? Hvordan kan det så være at de har
så
> store problemer med at leve op til Menneskerettighederne?

Der er gode menneskerettigheder, nemlig om ytringsfrihed og grundlovsforhør.

Og der er fascistiske såkaldte menneskerettigheder, nemlig dem der griber
ind i homogene landes selvbestemmelse. Muslimerne der var ½ så mange som
vesterlændingene og snart er dobbelt så mange, misbruger de fascistiske og
misbruger demokrati-ideen, en mand een stemme . Selvfølgelig er kvinder der
føder børn de ikke kan forsørge at sidestille med mordere, og vi har ikke
ansvar for at forsørge de børn som de bruger som gidsler for at afpresse
VEsten forsørgelse.
Kina handler klogt og ansvarligt og vi bør ikke blande os i deres interne
forhold.
At APJ retter en værre-end-PolPot dømmesyge imod kineserne er afskyvækkende.
Hvis han tror på menneskerettigheds-religion så ham om det - han skal ikke
skade omverdenen med denne ondskab.

Her lidt uddybning

Stormagtspolitik førte til at danskere og amerikanere mm har erobret Irak.
For at få vælgerne med på aggressionen , løj man at motivet var at hjælpe
irakerne af med en ond diktator.

Saddam-styret lod folk i slum have for lidt mad.
Amerikanerne har overskudsproduktion af korn og vil gerne pr mad-for-olie
vise sig mere social mod de fattige, end hvad Saddam var. Dem om det.

Vi bør se egoistisk på at få kontrakter til vore firmaer. Hvis vi kan
bidrage til et stabilt selvstyre, kan vi da godt bruge lidt af vort
bureaukrat-overskud på denne indblanding. Ikke af pligt og ikke udfra nogen
illusion om, at et nyt lederskab kan blive mere gavnligt for irakerne end
Saddams var.
(Massegrave var løgn i Rumænien 1989 og er det nok også nu i Irak)

Ulande, der deler rigdommen tyndt ud på alle, får værre
befolkningseksplosion og værre sygdomskatastrofer i fremtiden.
Det er irakernes eget styres beslutning, om de vil skubbe ulykkerne foran
sig, eller indføre etbarns politik som Kinas, eller junglelovs-forhold for
fattige, som var Saddams løsning (og måske den mindst dårlige i denne
kultur, som vi ikke forstår).

--


Bo Warming
Bjelkes Alle 46
2200 København N
Tel: 3586 1000
Fax: 3586 1001
http://www.glistrup.com